Runners

[Mary]

I have had so many contractors tell me different things that I am just plain confused now. We are purchasing a triple wide PH home with tape and textured walls to be put on a good dirt pad.

We've had some tell us that we have good dirt in our area and do not need runners. That the worst that will happen is we will have to re-level in about 5-6 years which is a lot less money than the $4200 bid on the runners (2ftx41ftx8in deep). Then others have said that because we will have the tape and textured walls that we need to put down a foundation for stability so as not to crack the interior paint on the walls.

If we have to we will put the runners if not then it will save a great deal. Do you know of homes that are taped and textured and not on a slab? If so, were there any problems with the walls cracking?

We are also looking to refinance with our land at a later date to get a better interest rate. If this refinance loan is more like a conventional loan (land/home loan), will they require us to have runners? What other types of requirements will they ask of us? Someone also said that we would have to get the concrete treated for termites. Can you please help?

Thank you, Mary

[rmurray]

First..what does PH say...I should think that you do need additional poured concrete footers..not necessarily full runners..Individually placed footers should cost less than 1/2 of the quoted figure..Ask you PH salesperson what their contractor will offer the service for..

Many finance sources require "permanent" footers to qualify for the best lending...A PH triple is a VERY big and heavy house..You would NOT want to risk the home settling..triplewide homes need very stable ground..Small out of level situations can be amplified in a triplewide..Releveling a triple wide home is a special skill and could be very expensive..

You are about to spend something over 100K..Another few dollars for the long term stability of the home is nothing..

[annaz]

We have a 32x78 ft home and we're on a dirt pad. However, we live in AZ and if yuo build a pad using a water truck, it is rock hard. You don't say where you live.

Concrete runners are a waste of money if you don't plan to have brick skirting w/tie downs. If you have the brick wall and tiedowns you can qualify for a better loan and so can the person you sell to assuming you were to sell.

So for the size of your home I would go the best structural route. It'll pay off in long run.

[Mary]

PH says to use runners. I had never even heard of footers until I saw this website. Can you give me more information about footers.

By the way, we live in East Texas. One of the contractors said we have some of the best soil in our small town in the area that he wanted our business but we could go without runners. PH says that they recommend the runners because of the tape and textured walls and don't want us to risk them cracking. I agree with what your saying that we are spending over 100K and for a lifetime of stability what's more money. BUT if we can do something less expensive like the footers you're talking about we'll have more money to put to other improvements.

Thanks a lot for your help! Mary

[Scott]

We install the FHA compliant foundation systems for most of the dealers in our area and our engineer highly recommends concrete piers over runners. We have done foundations for the PH store in this area and have never done runners. Though I am not an engineer, piers seem to be a little more structurally sound due to the fact they are poured 2 feet down into the ground. All of the blocks will have their own individual pier.

[annaz]

Now I don't know the difference between concrete piers over runners. I always thought those were two different things????Maybe somebody could help explain that.

But a footer is the concrete base (footer) under a brick skirting wall. You pour the footer for the concrete wall to adhere to, which should contain rebar for tiedowns. This footer goes a certain depth under the ground and the depth is different depending on location/freeze/etc. This is done for brick yard walls as well.

[Mary]

The contractor that I spoke with says just the opposite. He said that his engineer would prefer runners over piers. That piers were more like a mushroom using very little concrete. And the runners are more stable because of the great amount of concrete being used together for a great distance. I am by no means saying that he is right. It is like I said earlier, I have heard so many different opinions. What do you think about his opinion on piers? The contractor for the runners bid $4200 and the contactor for the piers bid $4000 (which someone said should be a lot less b/c he's using so much less concrete). So not much difference in the price. That's why I would like to find out the difference in stability. It was also stated that the delivery truck would have to back the home over the runners (cracking the runners) or piers (shifting the piers). I just need help in deciding the best for my home. How do I find a phone number for a foundation engineer?

[Mary]

So are you saying that footers can be set the perimeter of the home then bricked up for stability of the home or are the footers strictly there for when you decide to brick.

The runners are 2ft wide by the length (front to back) by 8" thick. They run from the back to the front of the home and are spaced about 4 feet apart. They support the house in a cross hatch style.

The piers (which I have only talked to one person who does them) are the mushroom shaped pieces of concrete that go into the ground and are set at each column. Our home which is a 41x 68 (triple wide) would call for around 80 piers.

I don't know if that helps and if I am misinforming please someone tell different because I am definitely not an expert this is simply what I have gathered.

MARY

[annaz]

Okay, that's what I thought piers were as well.

You are correct. Footers are set under the brick wall, underground around the perimeter of the home and it is the level area that also will contain rebar to "tie" your home down. The brick will be laid through the rebar on top the footer. Then, the rebar will attach w/a steel plate-type thing to your home, which is covered by the bottom moulding of your home. Now....if your home is manufactured....HUD coded, it will actually be a "false" wall.Your home will not actually sit on this wall. The stability of your house depends on if your house will be "tied down"...will be attached to the rebar that is in the brick and footers. This is tied down. This enables FHA loans and better financing. You can set piers, jack stands on flat bricks and still have a dirt pad with this skirting. You can also have the footers w/the brick wall and no tie downs. So there are several options.

Now if your home is modular...UBC coded your home's perimeter will actually sit on this brick wall. This UBC coded (modular) home will appraise like a site built home and MUST (to be UBC) have concrete runners.

Gee...I hope this makes sense.

[James]

Alright
Footers have two different meaning in this case.
1.A Footer is poured for a perimeter wall for a brick wall skirting
2. A footer is also the 2x2 concrete base poured for the placement of a pier block set.
Runners or piers will give you excellent stability BUT and I emphasize BUT if not done correctly niether will do any good so get someone who will do it right.
Good luck and Hope everything turns out good for you.