Data Plate and ducting questions
Data Plate and ducting questions
I have a 1978 Lake Park home, 14X70.
Neither the dealer nor the manufacturing plant are in business any more. The home still has the original gas furnace, and I am about to investigate having a new furnace installed, and the ducting system either repaired or replaced.
I do not think that the home has ever had central air conditioning. I got the home when it was 6 years old, and it had already been fitted for a roof evaporative cooler by the previous owner. I had a roof evap installed, and am still using it. I am about to have it removed from the roof.....but that is another story.
My questions have to do with the ductwork in the home. I have been unable to get any answers about the ducting system.
I am wondering if I post either a description of the system from the perspective of the registers, or if I post the information that is on the data plate about the ductwork, can anyone give me insight into how the ducting is configured, and how it functions?
And then, if so, also give me information about how the ductwork that is installed will affect the purchase of a new gas furnace?
I realize that I could ask whoever I call to give an estimate on repairing the ducting and installing the furnace. But I would really like to understand the system, and know as much as I can before I have someone come out.
Please tell me what information I should post so that someone can help me answer these questions.
I will sincerely appreciate any help anyone can offer. I have posted on another MH repair forum, but not received any help.
God Bless and thanks for your knowledge.
Lynn
Neither the dealer nor the manufacturing plant are in business any more. The home still has the original gas furnace, and I am about to investigate having a new furnace installed, and the ducting system either repaired or replaced.
I do not think that the home has ever had central air conditioning. I got the home when it was 6 years old, and it had already been fitted for a roof evaporative cooler by the previous owner. I had a roof evap installed, and am still using it. I am about to have it removed from the roof.....but that is another story.
My questions have to do with the ductwork in the home. I have been unable to get any answers about the ducting system.
I am wondering if I post either a description of the system from the perspective of the registers, or if I post the information that is on the data plate about the ductwork, can anyone give me insight into how the ducting is configured, and how it functions?
And then, if so, also give me information about how the ductwork that is installed will affect the purchase of a new gas furnace?
I realize that I could ask whoever I call to give an estimate on repairing the ducting and installing the furnace. But I would really like to understand the system, and know as much as I can before I have someone come out.
Please tell me what information I should post so that someone can help me answer these questions.
I will sincerely appreciate any help anyone can offer. I have posted on another MH repair forum, but not received any help.
God Bless and thanks for your knowledge.
Lynn
Re: Data Plate and ducting questions
given the age of the home, what you probably have is a straightline aluminum duct with the registers located directly above the duct. If your registers are located at the sidewall, you probably have the same duct, but with 4" round ducts leading from the main duct to the registers. Unless the ductwork is damaged and leaking, you should have nothing to worry about with furnace replacement. Make sure whatever furnace you buy is approved for manufactured homes. And that the installer is insured and licensed to do hvac work on manufactured homes. Both return air and make up air are handled differently in manufactured homes of this age than they are in site built, so the last part is important.
Re: Data Plate and ducting questions
Thank you for your reply.
Yes the ductwork is very damaged/leaking, otherwise I would not be contemplating replacing it.
For what it's worth..........with much persistence and searching, I finally found an article describing what I am almost sure is my heating/ventilation ductwork configuration. The website is homeenergy.org. I have listed the url to the page, and then copied and pasted the section of the article with the description.
http://homeenergy.org/archive/hem.dis.a ... 60110.html
"The 5%-10% of homes that have.......belly return systems are doubly cursed. Not only are there the usual supply-side problems to fix, but the return system is a catastrophically stupid design that must be fixed.
In the (belly return) systems, the return registers are cut in the floor, and are not connected to any ductwork whatsoever. There is a large hole in the furnace closet.....floor. The belly......is used as a non-ducted return plenum.
There are several problems with these non-ducted systems.
First, drawing return air from zones containing fiberglass insulation is never a good idea.
Second, they are always very leaky.
Fixing them involves sealing all the return grilles, and the furnace closet return hole (we use sheet metal) and cutting a return grille into the furnace door closet. It is not unusual to achieve a house leakage reduction of 1,000 CFM50 with this repair."
So, there is the answer I have been looking for. In my case, the return grilles are cut along the walls, and are the same size as the supply grilles, but have no dampers or closures.
The only thing that I am still unsure about is a large grille in my kitchen floor, which looks similar to what you used to see in old homes with floor furnaces.
When I first bought the home, this large grille was sealed (sort-of) with a piece of plywood underneath it. The plywood was just sort-of stuck in there, and has fallen down away from the grille somewhat over the years, so I have kept a small area rug over it.
I don't know if this big grille is part of the belly air return, or if it served some other purpose. I have been given various "uneducated" guesses as to its purpose over the years, but nobody really seems to know.
But then, I have not found anyone in real life or on any of the MH forums, that could even identify my ducting system.....which I have now done on my own.
Maybe what I have found will help someone else.
Lynn
Yes the ductwork is very damaged/leaking, otherwise I would not be contemplating replacing it.
For what it's worth..........with much persistence and searching, I finally found an article describing what I am almost sure is my heating/ventilation ductwork configuration. The website is homeenergy.org. I have listed the url to the page, and then copied and pasted the section of the article with the description.
http://homeenergy.org/archive/hem.dis.a ... 60110.html
"The 5%-10% of homes that have.......belly return systems are doubly cursed. Not only are there the usual supply-side problems to fix, but the return system is a catastrophically stupid design that must be fixed.
In the (belly return) systems, the return registers are cut in the floor, and are not connected to any ductwork whatsoever. There is a large hole in the furnace closet.....floor. The belly......is used as a non-ducted return plenum.
There are several problems with these non-ducted systems.
First, drawing return air from zones containing fiberglass insulation is never a good idea.
Second, they are always very leaky.
Fixing them involves sealing all the return grilles, and the furnace closet return hole (we use sheet metal) and cutting a return grille into the furnace door closet. It is not unusual to achieve a house leakage reduction of 1,000 CFM50 with this repair."
So, there is the answer I have been looking for. In my case, the return grilles are cut along the walls, and are the same size as the supply grilles, but have no dampers or closures.
The only thing that I am still unsure about is a large grille in my kitchen floor, which looks similar to what you used to see in old homes with floor furnaces.
When I first bought the home, this large grille was sealed (sort-of) with a piece of plywood underneath it. The plywood was just sort-of stuck in there, and has fallen down away from the grille somewhat over the years, so I have kept a small area rug over it.
I don't know if this big grille is part of the belly air return, or if it served some other purpose. I have been given various "uneducated" guesses as to its purpose over the years, but nobody really seems to know.
But then, I have not found anyone in real life or on any of the MH forums, that could even identify my ducting system.....which I have now done on my own.
Maybe what I have found will help someone else.
Lynn
Re: Data Plate and ducting questions
The large grill sounds like the home had a self contained central air at some point and this was the return air for the a/c. Does it lead to the ouside where it may have been attached to a duct that has been removed? This type of return air was considered a plus back when your home was built, because it is quiet and it prevents plumbing freeze ups. The cheapest and easiest way to reroute the return air would be to cut a large hole in your furnace door and install a grill. Then you would need to add a small grill either in each door, or in the wall above each door. And of course block off the hole in the floor of the furnace closet. This may be the cause of most of your leakage. the belly paper does not make an air tight seal. Your ductwork probably is not sealed, so you may be able to seal it with mastic rather than replace, but that will be just about as much work as replacing.
Re: Data Plate and ducting questions
Hi, again!
About the large grille:
Years ago, a repairman (I don't even remember which one or why he was here) said the same thing you have said about the big grille being for an A/C system.
I don't know, and have never had anyone check, where the grille leads. It has been behind skirting all these years, and I never really needed to know, until now.
I have seen the self-contained A/C units for sale on the internet at MH supply houses, but haven't really studied up on how they work yet.
Do you know how they work? Do they use the same ducting as the heater, or do they have their own duct system?
Now I am less sure that I found en explanation for the side ducts. RATS! I thought sure I had that all figured out, as being the ducts cut for a belly return system!
I guess there just are no definite answers until I have the MH HVAC people out here to check it all out!
The belly paper, insulation and ducting is a BIG mess. I had some major wind damage 2 years ago, which blew out 2 sections of my skirting. I am ill, and unable to repair it, and at the time was WAY broke, so it didn't get repaired. So, the feral cats around here got in there and had nice winter homes in the belly and ducting.
Well, I will be calling the contractor to come out and check it all out and give me an estimate. There is only one dealer/installer out here licensed and insured to install MH HVAC, and even though I would rather not be forced to use him, but the majority opinion seems to be not to use a "regular" HVAC dealer/installer.
Also, what would I ask to see, in order to be assured that someone who says they are MH licensed/insured., really is?
Man, oh, Man, this is a major roller coaster ride, trying to get this all figured out and decisions made! But I have to get it done pretty soon, as the nights are already down to the mid 60's!
Well, I appreciate your time, and any other input you can offer!
Thanks, and best wishes!
Lynn
About the large grille:
Years ago, a repairman (I don't even remember which one or why he was here) said the same thing you have said about the big grille being for an A/C system.
I don't know, and have never had anyone check, where the grille leads. It has been behind skirting all these years, and I never really needed to know, until now.
I have seen the self-contained A/C units for sale on the internet at MH supply houses, but haven't really studied up on how they work yet.
Do you know how they work? Do they use the same ducting as the heater, or do they have their own duct system?
Now I am less sure that I found en explanation for the side ducts. RATS! I thought sure I had that all figured out, as being the ducts cut for a belly return system!
I guess there just are no definite answers until I have the MH HVAC people out here to check it all out!
The belly paper, insulation and ducting is a BIG mess. I had some major wind damage 2 years ago, which blew out 2 sections of my skirting. I am ill, and unable to repair it, and at the time was WAY broke, so it didn't get repaired. So, the feral cats around here got in there and had nice winter homes in the belly and ducting.
Well, I will be calling the contractor to come out and check it all out and give me an estimate. There is only one dealer/installer out here licensed and insured to install MH HVAC, and even though I would rather not be forced to use him, but the majority opinion seems to be not to use a "regular" HVAC dealer/installer.
Also, what would I ask to see, in order to be assured that someone who says they are MH licensed/insured., really is?
Man, oh, Man, this is a major roller coaster ride, trying to get this all figured out and decisions made! But I have to get it done pretty soon, as the nights are already down to the mid 60's!
Well, I appreciate your time, and any other input you can offer!
Thanks, and best wishes!
Lynn
Re: Data Plate and ducting questions
A self contained does use the same ducts. You have a large flexible duct that leads from the a/c unit to the supply duct of the house, where a hole is cut to install it. You have another duct leading from a return air grill back to the a/c unit. These units are not terribly efficient and are not really used anymore in homes that have furnaces. Another thought, if you did have one of these removed from your home, that duct connection can be your problem. If not properly patched, it would be a HUGE source of leakage and a very inviting place for cats and skunks etc.
Re: Data Plate and ducting questions
Thank you so much!
Your explanation is very educational for me!
So, then, assuming that there was, at one time, a self-contained A/C unit, which would have been joined into the heating ductwork, does that then mean I am probably correct, that the registers in the floor beside the walls probably ARE for the belly return air supply for the furnace?
I hate to be so dumb about all this!
The area just under the furnace is one of the primary places where the cats have torn up the belly paper to get warm in the winter. Also, the area under the big register in the kitchen. Now I think I understand why they go for those areas..
There are other places, though, that were torn into at other (non-winter) times. There have been two litters of kittens (that I know of) born and raised in the belly of my house.
One litter was in one end/corner of the belly, and I climbed in there and got them out, and then the momma moved them under the portable building.
Then, another time, one kitten got itself lost in the belly, and appeared at the (supply?) register along the wall in the living room. It sat there and cried and pawed at the register, and I tooth the register grille of and got it out. One of my neighbors took it as their pet.
And those are just SOME of the cats I have had to rescue or deal with, over the 20 years I have been here.
Thanks for all the info you are providing! I really appreciate your willingness to help educate me!
Lynn
Your explanation is very educational for me!
So, then, assuming that there was, at one time, a self-contained A/C unit, which would have been joined into the heating ductwork, does that then mean I am probably correct, that the registers in the floor beside the walls probably ARE for the belly return air supply for the furnace?
I hate to be so dumb about all this!
The area just under the furnace is one of the primary places where the cats have torn up the belly paper to get warm in the winter. Also, the area under the big register in the kitchen. Now I think I understand why they go for those areas..
There are other places, though, that were torn into at other (non-winter) times. There have been two litters of kittens (that I know of) born and raised in the belly of my house.
One litter was in one end/corner of the belly, and I climbed in there and got them out, and then the momma moved them under the portable building.
Then, another time, one kitten got itself lost in the belly, and appeared at the (supply?) register along the wall in the living room. It sat there and cried and pawed at the register, and I tooth the register grille of and got it out. One of my neighbors took it as their pet.
And those are just SOME of the cats I have had to rescue or deal with, over the 20 years I have been here.
Thanks for all the info you are providing! I really appreciate your willingness to help educate me!
Lynn
Re: Data Plate and ducting questions
The easiest way t tell if you have belly return air is to look in your furnace closet. If you have a large return air grill in the floor, then you have belly return air. If your furnace door has a grill in it or if there is not a door on the furnace closet, just the front cover of the furnace showing you do not have belly reurn air.
Re: Data Plate and ducting questions
Once again, I want to thank you for the time you have taken to try to help me!
Best wishes to you!
Lynn
Best wishes to you!
Lynn
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