Purchasing a lot model vs direct from the factory and more

[Paula]

I'm from Illinois, but have property in Wisconsin, so I've been working with dealers closer to the property. I've narrowed my choices to two at two different dealers. One is a Skyline Lexington and the other is a Stratton Manor (Independence) by Century. What are your opinions on these two manufacturers? I've found that the Skyline only offers Novodeck flooring, but it has a 10 year manufacturer's warranty...is Novodeck with a 10 year warranty a good thing?

The Skyline is real nice...very open, very bright, and there isn't much I'd change from the lot model. The dealer wants to sell us the lot model and said that it is listed for $63k, but will sell it for $57,799 and throw in central air and "blocking" (what's this?). Personally, I think coming down only 10% to sell a lot model isn't very much. What is a fair percentage to expect them to come down on a lot model as well as brand new?

The Independence has a lot of nice standard features, and we would have to get this one built just for us as their lot model has sold, not to mention it was a $73k model. We are making quite a few changes to bring the price down (don't need "deluxe appliances", a log feature wall, fireplace, or log siding), but we still would be happy with this home, and it seems it would be comparable to the Skyline in price/features. I have to finish my list to know for sure though.

Is it better to go with a factory direct home than a lot model? Supposedly, the Skyline has been on the lot 6 months, and the dealer starts making payments on it after 6 months, so they want to get rid of it. What do you recommend I do to get the best possible price for the homes without having to play the haggling game too long?

Thank you in advance!

Paula

[rmurray]

Lots of good questions..
1) NovoDeck....My dealership does NOT sell this product at all...I would not recommend it..In my opinion the product is not durable enough...The 10 years warranty is void if there is any contact with moisture (even mentions open windows and doors)...Well it is moisture that ruins this stuff and causes the problems...My guess is that Skyline does offer an optional floor..I would only buy the Skyline with a different floor...Of course this makes the converstion about "lot" model moot...but

2)Lot discount...It is impossible to tell if this is a real discount or not..In normal times a dealer would not actually cut the price of a lot model much after only 6 months unless the home has drawn zero interest from potential customers..I would expect if you had tried hard enough you could have bought this home for this price the first day it came in..Also..I would expect that the dealer would order you one at this price plus the cost of the floor option if it is available (most plants have had about $1000 price increse lately and this might also have to be added)....All this said..this is not normal times...The largest dealer lender (Conseco) in the industry is in the middle of going out of the business and has DEMANDED full payoff of all 400 Million dollars that it has outstanding..Nearly all dealers in the country have to come up with the money in the next 3 weeks...Many dealers are offering exceptional deals on these home right now..I know we have 4 homes left that someone could buy very right this next 3 weeks...Most dealers have taken the same position and there might be some VERY good deals right now..This home might be one of them..If it is..the dealer might even take substancially less if you can close in 3 weeks..

3) As far as buying out of stock or ordering is concerned..Some folks will only buy out of stock because they can see and inspect the actual home they are getting..Others will only order because they can get everything they want and not pay for anything they do not want...Both are valid ways to purchase...Have you ever bought a new car out of stock...As a matter of fact...what comsumer good have you ever custom ordered...few I would expect..

Good Luck with your Quest..

[Paula]

Thank you so much for your advice

How would I go about finding out if Conseco is the company the dealer has this home through? I'm sure we could close in 3 weeks should the price be right I have asked the dealer to give us a spec sheet of the lot model we're looking at so we know EXACTLY what the home has, and we are going there again next weekend with the video camera, tape measure, and stud finder so we can remember what is all in that home. We've videoed it once already, but keep finding things we missed.

I can understand your point that some people prefer to buy something they've actually had their hands on rather than something straight from the factory. I know that is how I buy my cars, and why should this be any different, right? My only concern is that since we're looking at double wide homes, they have to be put together at the dealer, taken apart, moved to my property, then put together again...does that cause any extra problems than if it was "connected" directly on my property from the factory?

How are OSB and Novadeck (or is it Novodeck?) different? I've seen OSB at Home Depot and asked if they had Novadeck, but they didn't know what I was talking about. Also, what kind of plumbing is preferable? Speaking of plumbing, the homes we're looking at have two bathrooms. Do we have to have 2 drops for the septic or will they be linked together somehow so we only need one? Which is better...wallboard or drywall? Are Coleman furnaces okay? Do they have electronic ignition or is that something you have to ask for? If you run your house on LP gas, is it better to have a gas water heater or electric? What is desireable for eaves measurements?

When inspecting a potential home prior to purchase, how "thorough" do dealers let you be? I mean, can you pull back carpeting to see what kind of subfloor and padding there are? How do you know for sure the R value of the insulation and that they put in adequate amounts to make sure that R value is consistent throughout? How can you tell if cabinets are real quality or just "junk"? Do they mind if you turn on the furnace to see how well the thing heats the place or the AC to see if it cools it (if it's hooked up to power). Can you turn on the appliances to see that they work? Should you open and close every window/door?

I just want to make sure I have all my bases covered and have learned a lot since we first started looking Memorial weekend. This forum has been an excellent source of knowledge! Thank you all for having this!

Paula

[rmurray]

Many more good questions..You are doing what it takes to make a good purchase..Here we go..

1).."How would I go about finding out if Conseco is the company the dealer has this home through? "..Ask it the home is floorplaned with Conseco...They have no reason not to answer honestly..

2).."they have to be put together at the dealer, taken apart, moved to my property, then put together again...does that cause any extra problems than if it was "connected" directly on my property from the factory? "...No..the dealer has the home lot set...not completely set as on your lot..They are probably not much more than parked side by side..If the home is fully trimmed...Most dealers have a second trim kit fot the final set..If the marrage wall is trimmed...ask about this and request a new trim kit for your set..Other than that..there is no other problem..

3).."How are OSB and Novadeck (or is it Novodeck?) different? "..Completely different...nothing the same at all...NovoDeck (has the 10 yr warranty you mentioned) is a Ga Pacific Lumber Company brand name for pressboard made to be used in floors of manufactured homes..The glue used is formaldyhyde based and is water soluable..Home Depot does not handle the product because builders will not use it..If the builder thought the product good..they would use it building stick homes because it is cheaper than OSB.....OSB ...Oriented Strand Board..is made by many lumber companies under different brand names...Often they have 25 year warranties with little mention of moisture..The glue used is not formaldahyde based and much more water proof..It comes in many different thicknesses for the various uses in building...roof sheeting, exterior wrap and floors..It is often used by stick builders in custom homes..Some OSB is for exterior uses.

4).."Also, what kind of plumbing is preferable? "..There are many different kind of waterline used today..They are all systems used by stick builders and are equal in preformance..Repairs on some of the systems require a special crimping toll avaiable in any home improvement store..

5).."Do we have to have 2 drops for the septic or will they be linked together somehow so we only need one?"...All sewer drop outs will be connected and there will be 1 pipe coming from the home...this pipe can be directed anywhere that it is needed...front, back, side...

6).."Which is better...wallboard or drywall? "..Wallboard is drywall with wall paper preinstalled...It comes in different thicknesses...the paper is all different quality...I would only buy those that have vinal cover wall paper...Some chaper models have non-vinal paper and are very hard to clean without damaging the paper..Vinal paper will last many years and is easy to clean...."Drywall" term is usually reffering to taped and painted drywall..It also comes in different thicknesses and the finish can very from factory to factory..As any painted wall...it will have to be refinished regularly over the life of the home..of course this is one of the things some folks like..Rooms can easily be repainted to suit the decor needs of the times..Most factories have very limited warranties on drywall...usually not more than 30 days IF AT ALL...Drywall in manufactured and stick homes has a tendency to crack with minor settling of the home...If the home has a good foundation this should be little problem...and it is easy and cheap to fix..

7)..."Are Coleman furnaces okay? Do they have electronic ignition or is that something you have to ask for? If you run your house on LP gas, is it better to have a gas water heater or electric? "...Coleman is a good furnace..so are Colemen a/c's...be sure to specify a 12 SEER a/c...I am not sure about the ignition since we do all electric homes in our area..If you have gas you should have a gas water heater..the savings is large over time...not all floorplans accomodate a gas water heater...the water heater MUST be on an outside wall..

8)..."What is desireable for eaves measurements?"...As long as there is some eve..the rest is for looks and does not matter...You might consider gutters and downspouts after delivery to help keep water away from the home..Quality gutters should run about $ 5/ft and can be added to the home for finance purposes..

9).."When inspecting a potential home prior to purchase, how "thorough" do dealers let you be? "...I should think that a dealer would not mind that you look closely...Just remember this home is only lot set for display..not permanent set...windows and doors do not matter now..only later...appliances and heater have their own warranties separate from the home...since the home is new..all is covered under warranty..By the way...they warranty starts when you get the home...not when the dealer got it..I you see anything obvious (includiong new trim kit if needed)..make sure it is in your purchase agreement in writing..

10)..."How do you know for sure the R value of the insulation and that they put in adequate amounts to make sure that R value is consistent throughout? "...The factory supplies an insulation certification that you will sign at closing...It will describe the r values, type of insulation and thickness...You might ask to see it next time you visit dealer (call in advance..some dealers keep this important paper in the office which might be closed on the weekend)...Once the factory certifies the insulation they are bound by this document..If later you find significant decrepencies, they are liable..

11)..."How can you tell if cabinets are real quality or just "junk"? "...You will have to use your powers of observation...check the hinges..are they substancial..If the cabinet is not all wood (doors and stiles (the part the hinges attach too))..you will have to read the owners manual for proper care instructions..Most long term cabinet problems are from improper care when cleaning...Using the wrong stuff..If the cabinets look raggedy in the new home..BEWARE..

12)...You ask about running a/c....I would not accept a demo a/c...request only a new one..be sure to get at least a 12 SEER unit..

Now you are ready...If you buy that floor..be sure to read everything about it..be sure your dryer is ALWAYS vented outside of the underpinning, your washer never has leaks, you do not leave doors and windows open, be very observent of water leaks at the bottom of the toilets (wax rings go bad and are hard to spot before the floor is ruined), if you have shower door opening out be sure you have a rug to catch the moisture there, be sure the area around the bottom of the tubs is properly sealed and stays that way, be sure there is NO moisture under your home and be ready for floor repairs someday in the future..Good Luck

[Donna]

After reading all that, I wouldn't get the Skyline because of the Novadeck. After all, the floor is a big thing to replace. You say you like the Stratton Manor -- why not just go with that and not have to worry about the floors going bad? With the Skyline, you'll probably find yourself making daily inspections just to be sure no moisture seeps into the floor - and how are you going to prevent that from happening? Skyline IS beautiful, but if you have to replace the whole floor in ten years, I'd reconsider.

[Bill W.]

HI Paula,

I don't understand why they said Skyline doesn't offer plywood floors. We got ours last August and it came with plywood floors. It came form the San Jucinto, Ca. plant. Maybe they don't offer it from their other plants but i don't understand why they wouldn't.
Bill W.

[Marie]

Well I do not know much about MH as a whole, BUT I recently purchased a Fleetwood D/W 2001 Granada which was a model. The list price for the home and lot (not model) was $73,900.00 we paid total $69,900.00. We got a corner lot, skirting, all major appliances including dishwasher, fully carpeted etc. I LOVE IT! I had faxed a floor plan of what I was looking for to the sales person at the developement. This home matched it perfectly! There was no actual "use" of the home, it was strictly a walk through model. By purchasing the model I knew exactly what I was getting, it was already set up (no waiting) and was still fully covered by Fleetwoods 2 year endtoend warrenty. By doing this I was able to completely furnish the bedrooms.office and dining room with new furniture. I have lived here 6 weeks and have had NO problems at all. Besides the $4000. I also saved $1500.00 on the corner lot. I am very happy with the whole process.

[Paula]

Thank you all for your responses!

To rmurray: What is a 12 SEER a/c? (I've heard of them, but that's about all). Why does the WH need to be on an outside wall? It is on the 2 models we're considering as it's in the utility room. We wanted to have easy access if necessary.

I was able to obtain a copy of the dealer invoice and it says R-30 9 1/8" min.wool in the ceiling, R-19 5½ fiberglass in the walls, and R-19 5½" fiberglass in the floor. It has a roof load of 30, heat zone 3, and wind zone 1-15 (what is a wind zone and is this sufficient for central Wisconsin?). In the "Option Description" column, it has 7/16" OSB wood sheathing, so that's encouraging I have to find out if that is for the walls, ceilings, or floor, or all of the above.

Also, what is usually included in "delivery and set up" or does each dealer have their own thing? The dealer that has the Skyline only includes, delivery and assembly. The blocks it sits on are extra (as they said that they'd throw in AC and blocking with the drop in price they offered us). The one with the Stratton Manor (Century) has delivery and set up included in the price and it includes delivery of the home to our site, they bring all the blocks and shims necessary to set the home onto our foundation (we're doing a slab), they block out and level the home, trim the inside and seam the carpets, as well as side the ends. They provide and install vinyl skirting and central air.

To Donna and Bill W.: The Skyline we're considering is a lot model and to my knowledge, has Novodeck flooring in that model. I will check again with the Skyline dealer to see if we could get plywood if we ordered it, but the dealer would really like to sell us the lot model since it's been on the lot since January and they want to sell it before they have to start making payments on it this month. The Stratton Manor (by Century) only offers Novodeck. To me, that seems to be the ONLY downfall at this point. I am really going to have to check my facts on the Skyline....I think I've gotten confused about the flooring on that one. I do know that the Century only offers Novodeck, but I have to double check on the Skyline. Thanks for bringing that to my attention Bill, how do you like your Skyline? We're considering floorplan B214CT/5628. On the Century, we're considering model # 6428/order # 89044.

To Marie: Thank you for sharing your experience too! It sounds like you have a wonderful home with a fabulous warranty! The Skyline has a 1 year full warranty, but I'm not 100% sure of the Century, so that will be my next question to the dealer!

Sorry about all the questions!! My dealers have been getting bombarded with them as well Thank you all so much for your help!

Paula

[r murray]

Boy....your dealer is going to hate me...smile..

1)..."What is a 12 SEER a/c"....SEER is a rating system designed so that you can compare cooling units...a 12 SEER rated A/C uses 20% less energy (approximately) than a 10SEER rating...There are a/c's that rate as high as 16SEER...or use 60% less energy than a 10SEER...but they are very expensive..You can get great info on energy savings in your home at www.energystar.gov ...they even have a calculator there that knows your average weather statistics and can calulate your savings between different units..There are other cooling units as well...gas packs that cool using gas and geothermo units that cool by running waterlines under ground...Much of this is mentioned on this site...I just am amazed that folks often ask about thermo windows and insulation...but never ask about energy savings a/c's...Our price for a 12SEER rated unit with programable thermo stat (recommended on this site) is $ 250 higher than normal 10SEER w/factory thermostat..

2)Why does the WH need to be on an outside wall?
I just learned today that I was wrong on that...The normal gas water heater used by our industry Must be on the outside walls for venting reasons...but...I learned today that there are "sealed combustion water heaters" that can be anywhere..

Insulation, roof load and wind zone are all proper for your area...This also means you must have 2x6 walls because that is required for the R-19 in the walls...OSB Sheating is usually refering to the roof (but sometimes to the walls)...Some homes also have OSB floors and OSB wrap (whole house wrapped on the exterior of the wall studs)

The set up is usually dictated by local tradition...Dealers all over the country seem to have different policies...In my area..if we tried to quote with out the blocks...we would be laughed out of town...Just be sure you quotes and comparisons are apples to apples...This no block quote used to be used by dealers to keep you from calling about small service items..Most often they would tell you not to pay for the blocks now...send a check later..of course..few did..but often folks would not call for small service items knowing they owed money...This might not be the case with your dealer..

[scrapmycar]

All things considered equal, ordered vehicles cost no more than vehicles in dealer stock and, in some cases, may actually cost less.

When you buy from dealer stock, you may have to settle for a vehicle with either more or less equipment or your second or third color choice. Moreover, the dealership pays interest on stocked vehicles at a predetermined monthly rate to the manufacturer.

When you factory order, you get exactly what you want, in the color you want, and the dealer doesn’t have any finance charges -- which may reduce the cost to you.
Also keep in mind that a dealer will be less likely to negotiate on a model that’s a hot seller. But if the model you’re seeking has been gathering dust on the sales floor, you may be able score a great deal.