How can I tell which walls are supporting walls in a double wide?

[Remodeler]

We are trying to decide whether to demolish/replace or remodel our double-wide, 1972, 24' X 56' Kingswood. We would prefer to remodel as our County and the location will end up charging us upwards of $50,000 just to upgrade everything ON THE LAND to replace it. We hope to do a little at a time and not have to deal with them. Additionally, we can not sell the property (don't plan to) or move the mobile home because of the age---it has to be demolished in place. State law (maybe Fed?).

My husband is an engineer and we built, plumbed, and wired a large home so we "kind of" know what we are doing. However we are finding mobile homes are a different kind of project.

My big question is how can we tell which walls are the supporting walls? Is it possible to remove them and replace with supporting beams and posts?

The sad part is, my FIL put this here back in 1972 and placed it on the property in such a way that the beautiful view we have of the water is through a small kitchen window and one sliding door. I would like to move the kitchen to the back of the main room (facing a noisy highway) and the living space to the front and add windows. The kitchen has a floor to ceiling wall that sets back about 3-4 feet from the marriage seam with open space (no walls) on either side for the dining and small family room. It is about 8 feet wide and closes off the view---even if we were to add new windows.

is there anywhere I can post a photo of the floor plan? It's easier to see than explain!

Can anyone offer any suggestions? It just sucks big time to have to pay the County $50K before we could even consider adding a new home. That pretty much takes away our ability to pay for a new home.

Any help is greatly appreciated !

Linda

[admin]

Linda -You can probably tell where the truss/rafters are above the ceiling from the rosettes or other fasteners that hold the ceiling board to the bottom of the truss.  If a wall is directly under a truss I would suspect that it was load bearing...  if it is not then it is most likely a non-structural space divider. Your home is pre HUD code so there was no national standard for constructing manufactured homes.  In most of the older homes you will find something like conventional framing.  The studs may be less then 2x4 but if you open the wall you will find a framing pattern (example 2x4 16 inch on center).   Your exterior walls are almost surely holding up the roof.  It is impossible to be 100% certain which of the interior wall are load bearing.   Many of the interior walls are probably just space dividers BUT I would treat them all as if they carried some of the load and replace any framing that you take away with appropriate support.Consider buying The Manual for Manufactured Home Repair & Upgrade.   The purchase price represents a small fraction of what you would have to spend on contracting out repairs and upgrades.

[Remodeler]

Thank you David, the age of this MH makes things very complicated.

If you don't mind, could you clarify a bit about the rosettes or other fasteners you mention? We have attempted to see into the space between the ceiling and roof (attic) but have no easy access without destroying the ceiling. I'm not seeing any fasteners or other covers except for the cover that runs the length of the MH over the marriage seam on the ceiling. The ceiling is fiberboard that looks like it's a suspended ceiling, but in reality it looks more like each panel is nailed to something (can't be just lifted out) with fake strips of metal used to cover the seams giving the appearance that it is suspended. Each fiberboard panel is about 16" by 12 ft. (running the width of each half of the double-wide) and looks like it is continuous UNDER the wall in question.

I have the original blueprints for the MH. Is there any way I can tell if any of the walls are load bearing by looking at that?

Thank you so much, if we decide to undertake this project I will most definitely be buying your book!

Linda

[admin]

The ceiling boards are most likely attached to the trusses 16 inch on center where you see the trim strips covering the seams. If the wall is directly under a truss then there is a possibility that it is load bearing. If the only thing over the wall is a portion of the ceiling panel other than the seam it is most likely that wall is not supporting anything but itself.

You may be able to see the truss locations if you have a full set of the original drawings. But the ceiling board seams will tell you what you need to know. The only thing above the ceiling to attach to is the truss bottoms.

Beware that all walls will have electric lines and some plumbing within. If you have the electric and plumbing plans you should be able to locate and divert those prior to removing the wall. If not look to see where the power receptacles are and most often the wires will run in a straight line from one receptacle to the next. For plumbing lines you will need to see where the plumbing fixtures back up to a wall and follow them to see if they come from under the home or within the wall.

If you open the walls that you would like to remove and disassemble them, rather than demolish them, you should be able to avoid any mechanical problems. Once the wall is opened if the ceiling board is just resting on the top and there is nothing above that the top of any part of the wall is fastened to you can feel relatively safe about removing it.

[Remodeler]

Dave you're a real gem! Thank you SO much! This is our vacation home so I'm not actually there to see the details right now, but I suspect based on how cheaply everything else was constructed I should be able to see the ceiling panels from *inside* the cupboards on that wall on the kitchen side! Hopefully I will be able to see how the wall is attached (or not!).

The MH is actually cosmetically in pretty good shape, just a poor layout for the location. We definitely will have to move plumbing and electric---something my husband is very good at, since he wired and plumbed our 3200 sq. ft home. Moving the kitchen isn't like just opening up rooms, you are SO right---there are other things we must take into consideration.

We need to take another serious look at it and make a decision. Lots of things to take into account. Anything we invest in this MH will be money lost except for the time we can enjoy it. In our state, we can't sell the property without demolishing the home. After dealing with FEMA after a flood last year, I know way more than I ever wanted to know about how MH owners are viewed. Second class citizens in my opinion. And---I learned a new four letter word! FEMA!

If we decide to go ahead with the remodel I will be buying your book for sure!

Thanks again for the help, it has really helped a lot in making the decision about what we will do.

Linda

[David Oxhandler]

If the home is in good condition you might consider addihng an addition where you can enjoy the view. The cost might be very close, you would be increasing the living space and adding value to the home.

Check your local laws again. Im most places the I am aware of there are limitations on installing older homes... b ut exisiting homes are grandfathered in and can be sold as long as your not moving them.

[David Oxhandler]

In the early 1980's I had a mobile home repair service. At that time there were 10 MH factories with-in 20 miles of where we live and each was kicking out ten floors a day. There were so many new homes that the factories had to outsource the warranty service.

I dispatched a man and a truck to a dealership in Jacksonville FL. The sales manager was a VERY big man . The problem - as he walked prospects through our factory's homes the floors creaked and snapped and clunked. He did not have this problem with the competitors homes... Or any of the used homes taken in trade.... Only our factory's homes.

My service guy called me on the phone to report that the upgraded floor decking installed in the factory was never nailed down. Apparently the gun used to shoot the floor nails was defective that day. You could see the gun had been used as there were impact marks from the empty shots. But not a single fastener in any floor board.... ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE....