OK SO I found a plan I liked and got the list of features that come with the order from Redman. However it was built 12/06, ordered by the dealer in 9/07. The invoice calls it a 2008 but in the Resedential package which is charging 2008 price of $2699, it is missing some of the things that are listed in the invoice. This comes straight from the factory. Did they rip off the dealer and in turn it is being passed on to me? Do I want to deal with a manufacturer that does this? Is the dealer that blind as to not see the missing items? ie: 6 panel interior doors, tile backsplash and trim in the 2nd bedroom, fluted cabinet accents. I am assuming these things do cost money and I am being charged for them. Should I just go somewhere else and start over again? I have read Johns 2 books so I am getting very educated about all of this.Has anyone have problems with Redman of PA?
Thanks
Redman
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David Oxhandler
- Posts: 1459
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:37 am
Re: Redman
You may be looking at a generic list of features that changed since your home was built. There are three things to do... ASK QUESTIONS... ASK QUESTIONS and ASK MORE QUESTIONS.
Is the list specific for that home? Is there a serial number on the page identifying the home?? Ask the dealer about your concerns
Ask to see the data plates in the home. They should show the same serial number as the order for that home.
Make a phone call and Ask the factory what was standard and what was optional on the date of construction.
A home that was never lived in is generally considered a new home regardless of how long its been at the dealers. When you sign to purchase ask that the warranty period be noted on the sales contract so that there is no mistake.
Most of the time annual model changes are strictly cosmetic (change of trim and colors) and make little difference in construction features or to the buyers use. If the home has been in stock for a while chances are that the dealer paid less for it then the ones that are coming out of the factory today.
We are in a buyers market and they have been sitting on that home for a while.. Sounds like you may have a great opportunity to ask for and negotiate a discount in price.
Get into the action mode...take no prisoners...
Is the list specific for that home? Is there a serial number on the page identifying the home?? Ask the dealer about your concerns
Ask to see the data plates in the home. They should show the same serial number as the order for that home.
Make a phone call and Ask the factory what was standard and what was optional on the date of construction.
A home that was never lived in is generally considered a new home regardless of how long its been at the dealers. When you sign to purchase ask that the warranty period be noted on the sales contract so that there is no mistake.
Most of the time annual model changes are strictly cosmetic (change of trim and colors) and make little difference in construction features or to the buyers use. If the home has been in stock for a while chances are that the dealer paid less for it then the ones that are coming out of the factory today.
We are in a buyers market and they have been sitting on that home for a while.. Sounds like you may have a great opportunity to ask for and negotiate a discount in price.
Get into the action mode...take no prisoners...
David Oxhandler
[email protected]
[email protected]
Re: Redman
Oh I will take no prisoners, you can bet that. Quickly what is missing:
6panel interior doors, drawer over base cabenet doors, Tile backspash and edging in 2nd bath, fluted cabinet accents in master bath and kitchen, victorian vanity in masterbath, tipout sink trays at kitchen sink.framed mirrors in master bath,and I think that's it.
This is a revisional quote from the factory. I checked the manufactured date in the home as 12/2006, it was ordered asa a stock unit 9/26/07 and the factory lists it as a 2008 model. The dealer was amazed at this as well.
It does not mention a vin# on the order form. I can get it from the home itself if that will help me negotiate a price. I am thinking more than 10% off, maybe John will read this and give me advice.Thanks for your answer!
6panel interior doors, drawer over base cabenet doors, Tile backspash and edging in 2nd bath, fluted cabinet accents in master bath and kitchen, victorian vanity in masterbath, tipout sink trays at kitchen sink.framed mirrors in master bath,and I think that's it.
This is a revisional quote from the factory. I checked the manufactured date in the home as 12/2006, it was ordered asa a stock unit 9/26/07 and the factory lists it as a 2008 model. The dealer was amazed at this as well.
It does not mention a vin# on the order form. I can get it from the home itself if that will help me negotiate a price. I am thinking more than 10% off, maybe John will read this and give me advice.Thanks for your answer!
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John Grissim
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:54 am
Re: Redman
Hello,Vtallison,
The author of the Grissim Guides here. David's information is accurate and his advice is good. But I'm confused by your comment that the home was built in Dec, 2006 but not ordered by the dealer until September, 2007. Factories don't build homes unless dealers order them, either for display at their sales center or as a custom order for a home buyer. These dates suggest the home sat around on the factory grounds for nine months. I suggest you look into the exact chronology to clear this up.
Consumer laws do allow unsold homes to be regarded legally as new even if they've sat on a sales center lot from previous years. It's unusual for a lot model to be more than two years old. Because your home is a lot model, you should be able to ask for and receive a meaningful discount because of the wear and tear. Yes, do ask for a complete list of everything in the Residential Package and/or other options, and if possible get a line item costing of each option.
In addition, as I advise in the Buyer's Guide:
1. Absolutely never sign any agreement until and unless you have everything listed and spelled out, including what the dealer has assured you will be done (e.g., transportation, set up, site prep). You should have assurances that you will not have to spend a penny more than agreed to to have everything done to your satisfaction. Do not hesitate to write up yourself any conditions or terms agreed to, and have that page attached to the purchase agreement (dated and signed by you and the dealer) as an Addendum to Purchase Agreement.
One of the addenda I recommend is the withholding of the final payment of X amount of dollars until the buyer is satisfied that all conditions have been met to his or her satisfaction.
2. Once you have the total price for everything, in writing, yes, offer 10% less. The dealer may cringe and scream, but the worst that can happen is they'll refuse. But likely they'll come back with a counter offer, just like in the Real Estate business. In short, it doesn't hurt to make a low ball offer. You never know. As David correctly says, it's a buyer's market.
Good luck! And let us know here how it goes.
John Grissim, author The Grissim Guides (for sale at the Bookstore here)
The author of the Grissim Guides here. David's information is accurate and his advice is good. But I'm confused by your comment that the home was built in Dec, 2006 but not ordered by the dealer until September, 2007. Factories don't build homes unless dealers order them, either for display at their sales center or as a custom order for a home buyer. These dates suggest the home sat around on the factory grounds for nine months. I suggest you look into the exact chronology to clear this up.
Consumer laws do allow unsold homes to be regarded legally as new even if they've sat on a sales center lot from previous years. It's unusual for a lot model to be more than two years old. Because your home is a lot model, you should be able to ask for and receive a meaningful discount because of the wear and tear. Yes, do ask for a complete list of everything in the Residential Package and/or other options, and if possible get a line item costing of each option.
In addition, as I advise in the Buyer's Guide:
1. Absolutely never sign any agreement until and unless you have everything listed and spelled out, including what the dealer has assured you will be done (e.g., transportation, set up, site prep). You should have assurances that you will not have to spend a penny more than agreed to to have everything done to your satisfaction. Do not hesitate to write up yourself any conditions or terms agreed to, and have that page attached to the purchase agreement (dated and signed by you and the dealer) as an Addendum to Purchase Agreement.
One of the addenda I recommend is the withholding of the final payment of X amount of dollars until the buyer is satisfied that all conditions have been met to his or her satisfaction.
2. Once you have the total price for everything, in writing, yes, offer 10% less. The dealer may cringe and scream, but the worst that can happen is they'll refuse. But likely they'll come back with a counter offer, just like in the Real Estate business. In short, it doesn't hurt to make a low ball offer. You never know. As David correctly says, it's a buyer's market.
Good luck! And let us know here how it goes.
John Grissim, author The Grissim Guides (for sale at the Bookstore here)
Re: Redman
John,
Thanks for your input. Your books are great too! I saw the manufactures tag myself listing 12/2006 as the date. And on the invoice form it has a date order from the dealer as 9/2007. So who should I ask about those discrepancies? I was going to offer say a 15% discount since all of the problems with the invoice. I know everything that is in the package in 2008 and the salesperson says she spoke with their manufactures rep and he said that yes those things were not in the package when this home was built. It still does not explain why the invoice lists it as a 2008 model but bear in mind that it is a revised invoice.
How can I call the factory? Should I or leave it up to the dealer? I am more upset with the factory as it seems this is deceitful. Will the dealer give me the costs of the home?
Thanks again
Thanks for your input. Your books are great too! I saw the manufactures tag myself listing 12/2006 as the date. And on the invoice form it has a date order from the dealer as 9/2007. So who should I ask about those discrepancies? I was going to offer say a 15% discount since all of the problems with the invoice. I know everything that is in the package in 2008 and the salesperson says she spoke with their manufactures rep and he said that yes those things were not in the package when this home was built. It still does not explain why the invoice lists it as a 2008 model but bear in mind that it is a revised invoice.
How can I call the factory? Should I or leave it up to the dealer? I am more upset with the factory as it seems this is deceitful. Will the dealer give me the costs of the home?
Thanks again
Re: Redman
Sounds to me like the home was built for a different retailer. Most likely the original retailer didn't take delivery of the house or went out of business and Redman had to go get it back. Some factories generate a new invoice to sell the home a second time. This new invoice shows what is currently offered when the home is sold the second time but not necessarily what is in the home in question. That is what a revisional quote means. The purpose of this is to show a retailer what they would be paying for the house if they ordered it on that day. Do not assume the retailer paid for something that they didn't get. The invoice is not the retailer's cost. They may have received a substantial reduction from that price. There are also costs that aren't included in the invoice such as installation, permits, A/C, etc. I would be wary of a retailer that showed you an invoice and represented that as cost. If they showed you an invoice and said I will sell it to you for that and you assumed that is the cost, that is something altogether different. Any retailer buying a 9 month old house from the manufacturer would have demanded and received a substantial discount. The retailer's amazement puzzles me. Every house is checked by a retailer when it is received to see that is the right house, is undamaged and that they got what they ordered. Either your sales person wasn't with the company when they bought the house or they aren't honest. If they aren't honest, don't buy a house from them. There are a lot of other houses out there. And you will not get a big enough discount to make up for anything and everything they might not be honest about.
Re: Redman
As a Realtor and manager of a mfr. home dealership, I feel comfortable saying "something smells like fish". While a factory might be slightly sloppy on paperwork, I have not heard of the "revisional quote", but what trmino says is hard to refute.
I would ask the dealer if they would be willing to order a brand new home direct from the factory at the same price they end up negotiating on the lot model (negotiate first). If you're talking to a sales person, their commission is usually affected more on a lot model based on increased costs for transport, tear-down, and an additional set-up.
If you go forward on the existing unit, will the carpet be replaced? If not, what is the condition? Are there scuffs and scapes in cabinetry, flooring, etc. that might never be repaired to "new" condition?
Interesting comment, I wish you luck.
I would ask the dealer if they would be willing to order a brand new home direct from the factory at the same price they end up negotiating on the lot model (negotiate first). If you're talking to a sales person, their commission is usually affected more on a lot model based on increased costs for transport, tear-down, and an additional set-up.
If you go forward on the existing unit, will the carpet be replaced? If not, what is the condition? Are there scuffs and scapes in cabinetry, flooring, etc. that might never be repaired to "new" condition?
Interesting comment, I wish you luck.
Re: Redman
The dealer has essentially ignored me and will not deal with me probably because I brought up these issues. They are supposably a very reputable dealer. Not a member of BBB cause they feel anyone can pay for the designation and it allows bad dealers to get good ratings even if they have complaints. They also would not divulge any customers for me to talk to. So, I am back to square one and am now looking at skyline and a different dealer in NH. I am hoping to resolve all of these problems , as I am almost ready to just stay in my home and forget my mH plans.
Thanks to all of you for your fantastic advise!
Thanks to all of you for your fantastic advise!
Re: Redman
Sorry you have had such bad experience..No one can buy out of bad info in the BBB. This dealer is full of misinformation..The BBB does keep rercords on non-member businesses. One's record must be clean to become or remain a member.Sounds like they have made up your mind for you..Probably for the best.
Good Luck
Good Luck
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David Oxhandler
- Posts: 1459
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:37 am
Re: Redman
Skyline has long been a leader in customer satisfaction. In most parts of the country they have a great selection of floor plans to select from and you can upgrade their most basic product to be competitive with the best homes built.
Redman makes a great product but it sounds like the local dealer has been less than honorable. I expect you will have a better experience with the Skyline dealer. Skyline also has a factory not far from you in Vermont, which should make warranty service simpler
Thanks for sharing your experience. Come back and keep us posted on your continuing adventure
Redman makes a great product but it sounds like the local dealer has been less than honorable. I expect you will have a better experience with the Skyline dealer. Skyline also has a factory not far from you in Vermont, which should make warranty service simpler
Thanks for sharing your experience. Come back and keep us posted on your continuing adventure
David Oxhandler
[email protected]
[email protected]
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