Page 1 of 2

What should I do? Please help!!! (LONG read)

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:36 am
by Don
Hi,
My wife and I have been looking for a new home since November 2005. We were looking for modular, but just could not find anything that met our needs within our immediate price range.
Last May, we finally found a house we fell in love with. It was a manufactured home, but it fit our needs so well, we couldn't pass it up. It was a Horton KCP something or another. I don't remember the exact model name/number. The house is 27x76. The salesman set up an order form, spec'd out to our liking, and we were really excited, because this is our first time buying.
Then the whole thing turned into a nightmare! First off, as we later found out, the house wasn't actually ordered until a full month after we signed the order sheet. Okay, fine. Problem was, we waited, waited, and waited some more, and no house. Now, I'm a very realistic person. I know that some problems are inevitable and things happen sometimes that are really out of anyone's control, but after a while, something just seemed wrong. The salesman, who also happened to be running the lot on an interim basis, constantly tried to pacify us with the whole 9 yards a generic salesman will typically do. It was always, "I called the plant, and it's supposed to ship out either today or tomorrow." or something along those lines. This went on and on. As first time buyers, we were trying to be understanding and patient, so whatever. Then, the next thing we know, we're hearing, "They finished the house, but the inspector stopped it and wouldn't let it ship out, because it has a 5/12 roof pitch, and you can't have a 5/12 on this house in a zone II."
Now, before I go any further, I'm in NC and I have since asked other dealers about this, without letting them know the real reason I was asking, and they have all told me that a 5/12 can be on a manufactured home in zone II areas. I have yet to see anything official (HUD regulations, etc.), where I can come back and prove that I was lied to, so if anyone knows where I can get hard information on this let me know. I've checked the HUD website and couldn't really find anything conclusive.
Okay, so now they're putting a 4/12 roof on the house. Fine. The salesman informs me that because of the mix-up, they'd be taking $2600 off the price. Whatever. Just get me my house please!
Okay, so the house finally comes in during the first of August, close to 2 months after it was ordered and close to 3 months after we requested it be ordered. It comes in, and it sits on the lot. And sits, and sits. All the while, it's hurricane season here, and sure enough, one comes through mid-August. We are assured that the house is secured and wrapped up tight. I know that some water and/or moisture has to be inevitable, but I try to have faith in the whole process. That's what these people do for a living, right?
Well, after the storm blows through, the house sits there for about another week or two, this time because he "can't find anyone who will show up to do the set-up, or anything for that matter." He constantly eluded to the fact that I work in the construction industry, and that "I should know how those contractors are." or "I know how it is..." No, I don't. When something's in a contract, either the work's done when it's supposed to be done or somebody else will be glad to get the business.
Then at the very end of August, after all the waiting, all of a sudden I get a call saying that somebody's gonna set it up and they're starting on it tomorrow. It happened very fast, almost suspiciously fast. They haul the house to my lot and start setting it up. My wife and I went out there one day after the crew had left for the day and, not having a key, took a look-see in through the windows. We look in one of the back bedroom windows, into the room that our 5-year old son had already claimed, and see what looks like sponge painting on the wall. Guess what that was? Nothing but pure mold. Big black and dark green splotches everywhere in that room.
Okay, this is a whole other beast altogether. I found out later that the setup crew saw it when they were putting the house together and alerted the salesman. But did he stop it? No, they kept right on with the setup. I called him the very next morning and he already knew about it, claiming that he was a "step ahead of me" and they would take care of it. I really think that had we not seen it ourselves, he would've tried to cover it up, which he claimed the setup crew suggested he do. But, that's all hearsay, and I have no proof of that. But, what I do know, is that I have a pregnant wife and a disabled child, who also happens to be asthmatic, and a new house full of mold. This isn't gonna work.
I was concerned that, because the house had been put together already, that the mold would spread, and even worse, maybe jump to the front half of the house. By the time they got a professional (who I had to find myself, by the way) to look at the mold, it had indeed spread and jumped to the studs in the front part of the house.
At that point, rather than replacing the house and dealing with the moldy one on their own time, they went to the insurance company to try to get my house either replaced or fixed.
Fast forward to now, the second week of January 2006. I got a call over the weekend from the lot manager. I asked him several weeks ago, "What are you going to do for me for jerking me and my family around like this." He told me this weekend that the person doing the repairs and mold remediation was ready to get to work and wanted to meet with me to discuss the whole thing. The lot manager or owner or whatever he is, is who I've been dealing with directly for the past several months. The original salesman won't even call me anymore!
Here's the deal. We were given a price on this house when we first started. We got them down on our own only about 6 or 7 thousand. Now, he's saying that they'd give me another 8 thousand off, 2 of which would be indirectly through the insurance company. I really don't feel like they're making as good an effort as they should for all the mess that they've put me and my family through. We haven't signed anything, and no money has changed hands because we took care of our own financing. My family has been living out of boxes for the past 6 months because as soon as the house showed up, we got ready to move. I've paid money on rent and storage that I'll never see again. And in general, our lives have been made pretty miserable by the whole experience. But, this is the house we wanted to begin with, and if we were to find a different house, we would always be a little bitter about not having the one of our choice. It's on our land already, and it's put together. If they can make the house right and guarantee the mold remediation in writing, I might deal with them. But to me, 8 thousand isn't cutting it for what they've put us through. I'm calling to set up a sit down meeting so we can discuss numbers. WHAT SHOULD I DO???!!! How much do you think I'm entitled to ask for? I know they can't give me the house for nothing, but at the same time, I've got to look after my family and make sure we get what we deserve.
Thanks in advance and sorry for the long read, but hey, it's a long story.

Re: What should I do? Please help!!! (LONG read)

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:21 pm
by David Oxhandler
Bring in your own mold removal experts. Get an estimate and present it to your insurance company. Let the insurance company fight with the dealer...

Re: What should I do? Please help!!! (LONG read)

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:33 pm
by rmurray
The other poster has good advise..I would also suggest you speak to an attorney who will look out for your interests....

5x12 roofs are possible in wind zone 2 areas...Horton does not build a 5x12 per say..they sell the home with the center post measurements....A 5 foot center post is really a 4x12 roof on a home with 14 or more often sections....A 4 foot center post is a 3x12 roof on 14 foot sections.....A bit confusing to many...To get a 5x12 roof you have to buy the 7' center post...

Sorry you were lied to about the delivery....They did not build the home with 5x12 then rebuild it again...
I would be a little slow paying them until it is right...Good Luck...

Re: What should I do? Please help!!! (LONG read)

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:18 pm
by Don
Hi,
Thanks for the replies. Just to clear everything up about the insurance issue, it is actually the dealer's insurance that's handling the remediation and repair.

Just an update, I called and arranged a meeting with the lot manager/owner/whatever he is, and the salesman today. We met, and he gave me a number to think about. Basically, it was them trying to hoodoo me with what appeared to be a low number. They basically gave me a "fixer-upper" price on the house. They wanted to sell the house, as-is, to me for a reduced price, and then forward the insurance money to me to let ME handle all of the repair work so I can wash my hands of them and they can wash their hands of me. The number looked good on paper, but once you add back in the price of repair, I would wind up financing a lot more than I want to. Those salesmen are good, aren't they? I called their bluff and I gave HIM a number to run through the 'ol calculator. I basically told them that I expected to pay X amount of dollars for the house, and they were going to do what they are supposed to do. If they don't, they need to come get the house off of my land. I'm waiting to hear from them, and should know something within the next couple of days. I know I didn't get too specific on what went down today, but I've got to take off. Any replies would be appreciated. I'll check back tomorrow evening.

Thanks again.

Re: What should I do? Please help!!! (LONG read)

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:17 pm
by Brian Guidry
Don,

Sorry to hear about your nightmare home buying experience. I feel your pain....

Anyway, I think you have been more patient and accomodating than I would have been. This "dealer" person needs to be put out of business. My only advice to you is to call them up, tell them you want to know RIGHT NOW when your house will be ready or they'll be hearing from your attorney. And if they don't give you a satisfactory answer, then you go out and find a good lawyer. Check your local yellow pages. Some attorneys practice the "lemon law" and this may well fall under that category in your location.

Also if there is any final paperwork, especially the kind that'll keep the money from flowing, don't sign off on it until you are 150% satisfied with everything.

Best of luck to you Don. Please keep us posted on what's happening.

Brian

Re: What should I do? Please help!!! (LONG read)

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:57 pm
by Don
Hey, thanks again for the replies. I gave them my bottom line Monday and have yet to hear anything back. I will be calling tomorrow to see what the deal is, but honestly, I have a feeling these guys might be wanting to come get the house off of my lot with the general feeling that it would be cheaper for them. Then again, I don't know.

If they reject my offer, I'm strongly considering going the lawyer route. I'll drop in every once and a while and keep you posted as to what's going on. Wish me luck and feel free to comment. I need all of the advice I can get!

Re: What should I do? Please help!!! (LONG read)

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:37 am
by Don
Okay, thought I'd throw in a few more details on my situation. As far as financing is concerned, I did not go through one of their lenders or even any of the more popular home lenders out there. I went through my credit union, like I do everything else. They're local and I know many of the people who work there, loan officers and whatnot. And the best thing of all, they don't pay one red cent to the dealership until everything is done and we're able to live in the house.

Problem with that is, if they're gonna screw me around like they have without any of my money, what are they gonna do when they get my money?!

Another thing that I don't think I mentioned is that I haven't signed ANYTHING with this dealer since June 28, 2005. This was an order sheet, which says in big bold black print on the front that "I UNDERSTAND ANY CHANGE TO THE TERMS OF THE PURCHASE AGREEMENT BY THE DEALER WILL CANCEL THIS AGREEMENT."

The simple fact that it shows we ordered a 5/12 roof and received a 4/12 should negate the agreement right there. Plain and simple, there's no paperwork signed by me for the house we received.

Now, the way I see it, the good in all of this is that we should be able to completely walk away from this situation, if need be. The bad is the whole experience thus far, with the waiting and everything.

My question is, with no money changing hands and without my signature on a valid contract of any type, what could an attorney do for me?

I probably should've walked away from this a long time ago, but my inexperience and attempts to be patient bit me in the rear end. The only reason I'm hanging on right now, is that we're possibly looking at a deal that would be too good to pass up, should they accept the number I offered them.

They have wasted a LOT of my time and money (rent, storage), but those are things that are past and I'll never see or have again. Looking forward, if there's anything an attorney could do for me in this situation, I'd love to know what that would be. So, if any of you know, please pass along the info. And thanks again!

Re: What should I do? Please help!!! (LONG read)

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:58 pm
by rmurray
If you did not already know...This dealer is very dumb.......He has no enforceable way to collect his money..even if the home was complete..as ordered...


Every state has a system of mechanics liens...These protect workmen from real estate home owners who try to avoid payment for services...It is likely yours has a similar system..An attorney can advise you of your risks if you chose to end this deal,,Plus this dealer has caused you financial harm by not fulfilling his contract..Your attorney can advise you of the process to make this claim...A complaint to the license authority who issues licenses to manufactured home dealers might get some pressure coming from another direction...You are currently at risk for terms of thousands of dollars..A few hundred for good legal advice is cheap....Ask your credit union for a referral to an attorney....

Re: What should I do? Please help!!! (LONG read)

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:53 pm
by Don
Just a little update...

I had a meeting with the manager and salesperson today. They've come at me with this:

They've offered to sell me the house for the amount of the invoice plus setup, elec. and plumbing hookup, heat pump, trimming, and taxes & title. Basically, what we've got is the amount of their invoice + about $9700 to cover all of those things. I have a copy of their invoice in my possession.

Now, I'm a skeptic. I know that these "invoices" aren't always authentic. Hopefully, they wouldn't be dumb enough to try that, but hey, you never know...

Their insurance company is paying to have the house completely fixed, and the seller is taking care of that.

I told them to give me a day or two to consider the numbers. I also told them that for all the waiting and inconvenience this has caused, that I thought they could do more to try to make me happy.

What do you all think? Am I being greedy? Or should I jump on this deal while I have it? It's to the point now that there is supposedly no profit in the deal for the seller, and it would be easier for them to just take the house and sell it to someone else at a reduced, yet profitable price. What should I do?!!

Thanks!

Don

Re: What should I do? Please help!!! (LONG read)

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:27 pm
by rmurray
They must know you have a strong case....It is probably their legal advisers that have given them the advice to settle with you..Again..you should have legal advice.....What about warranty issues...of course Horton will not cover the home since the set was so bad....Are you sure they have paid the vendors and contractors involved...

Do I understand correctly..They are discounting to invoice AND fixing the home???...If fixed well...this could be a decent deal...Remember..the repair crew is NOT responsible to you...only the insurance company...If they halfway fix the home..you will have no claim on them...Again..legal advice seems called for now..tens of thousands are at risk..a few hundred for good representation is nothing....

Sorry...good luck...

P.S....Most dealer invoices have some rebate money packed in them....Horton's rebate is related to the overall volume the dealer does....