Hi,
We currently own a site built spec home in a new subdivision. However, we would love to lower our housing expenses. We found a Palm Harbor we like. It is 2000 sf, $77000. With the land and installation I am guessing it would reach 100k. Is that a really bad investment to step down from our current home (worth 160k) and get a manufactured for 100k? It seems like a lot of money for a manufactured home. If it is structurally sound, then that would be fine, but I am inexperienced in this area and don't want to make a costly mistake.
How long will the home last? Is it really comparable to a site built home like they say?
Also, if we put it on a nice piece of land, and maintain it well, will it still depreciate?
Thanks!
Penny
Lifespan of Palm Harbor Home
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Eugene
Re: Lifespan of Palm Harbor Home
While Palm Harbor is one of the best, the likelyhood that your home will appreciate in value is slim to none. Remember, they are titled like a car.
If you want a true investment, go modular.
Now others on this board will disagree, but they are mostly industry folk.
If you want a true investment, go modular.
Now others on this board will disagree, but they are mostly industry folk.
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David Oxhandler
Re: Lifespan of Palm Harbor Home
Penny - Palm Harbor is top of the line you wont go wrong buying top quality. The last federal study that I read predicted a fifty year life span for the modern manufactured home. Appreciation/Depreciation depends on LOCATION and CONDITION. Invest in a good neighborhood and take care of your property and you wont be disappointed.
Eugene Im afraid that you have been misinformed about home appreciation/depreciation - So here, once again, is our standard responce Dont feel like your alone. "Many Americans have been victimized by an outdated conception of manufactured homes—one which has been perpetuated in the news media... IN FACT, manufactured homes held up well, even when compared to site-built homes. That this was be the case should not really surprise anyone: since 1999, manufactured homes have been built and installed to standards tougher than any but the most recent codes for site-built structures." (http://www.builtstronger.com/myths.html)
For a point of view from the Lakeland Florida area, where there are more manufactured homes per sq mile than any place else on earth, take a look at this article from LEN BONIFIELD. He tells us "As with all real estate, location and maintenance of the home play a huge role in determining the rate and extent of appreciation. In a community setting, location equates to amenities, location in the state, proximity to rivers, lakes coastlines, etc. In most average communities, homes that are 25 to 30 years old can be found selling for $15,000 to $30,000, when they sold new for under $10,000. It's not much, but it is some, appreciation. A recent newspaper article related a manufactured home for sale for more than $250,000 in Broward County. It is common to see 30-plus-year old homes sell for more than $100,000 in the Fort Myers area." He tells us "If you go to Natalie Estates in Stuart and hundreds of other good communities in Florida, you will find 1970's parks where housing has appreciated greatly. California is another classic example of selling prices several times more than they sold for originally." Read the entire article - Factory-Built Homes Appreciate
Consumers Union also has point of view different than yours
http://www.consumersunion.org/pdf/mh/Appreciation.pdf Read it and learn that "average appreciation rates of manufactured homes packaged with owned land are statistically in line with the site built market, and there are few inherent reasons that a home built in a factory should perform differently than one built on site"
"For many years, people have assumed that the value of manufactured homes depreciates. This is not so. Studies conducted at two Universities revealed that the determining factor of appreciation in both types of homes was their location. Maintenance also plays a major role.
If a home of any kind is built or setup in a bad neighborhood or area it will probably depreciate no matter what. In a good area or neighborhood they will generally appreciate in value depending on the local housing market and economy. In the case of a manufactured home, if it is setup on a permanent foundation with a concrete pad, blocked properly and anchored properly, with good drainage so water does not sit under the home and if one buys from a reputable dealer who uses good setup people, the home will be no different than a site built home. It would appreciate in value at the same rate as a site built home in the same area.
The cost of manufactured homes is significantly lower than the cost of site-built homes. This gives them an instant appreciation between what the home actually cost the homebuyer and what its market value is. In some cases, a multi-section manufactured home has sold for more the second time than the first. Properly setup and well taken care of, you are talking about a fantastic investment potential." (http://www.rebelhome.net/myth.html)
Here are a few more opinions - lifted from the MHI web site:
Manufactured Housing Research ProjectUniversity of Michigan, 1993Dr. Kate Warner and Dr. Robert JohnsonThis study is divided into six sections dealing with various questions surrounding manufactured housing: Quality, Costs and Finance, Values, Impacts on Adjacent Property Values, Manufactured Housing and the Senior Population, and Alternative Ownership and Innovative uses. Findings included: - Manufactured housing quality has become essentially equivalent to that of conventional housing - Manufactured housing compares favorably with site-built housing as an affordable housing option - Manufactured housing, like site-built housing, can be viewed as an investment with probabilities of appreciation and equity accumulation - Manufactured housing has no impact on the appreciation rates of surrounding properties, putting to lie the myths of negative property value impacts.The Future of Manufactured HousingHarvard University Joint Center for Housing Studies, 1997Kimberley Vermeer and Josephine Louis The Harvard Joint Center report is essentially a survey of previous academic studies of manufactured housing. It draws from earlier Joint Center studies, particularly Residential Property Value and Mobile/Manufactured Homes: A Case Study of Belmont, New Hampshire," which is Thomas Nutt-Powell’s 1986 examination of property value impacts of manufactured housing, as well as the Manufactured Housing Research Project abstracted above. The Future of Manufactured Housing points out some areas that the industry needs to address (many of them dealt with in the Manufactured Housing Improvement Act, such as installation) and the conclusions that it draws are generally very favorable for the industry. The Impact of Manufactured Housing on Adjacent Site-BuiltResidential Properties in North CarolinaEast Carolina University, 1997Dr. Richard Stephenson and Dr. Guoqiang Shen.The first examination of property value impacts of manufactured housing that draws on real-world spatial relationships via GIS data, The Impact of Manufactured Housing on Adjacent Site-Built Residential Properties in North Carolina dispels the twin myths that manufactured housing automatically depreciates and drags down surrounding property values. The most telling findings were: - Manufactured homes with a fixed foundation or listed as real property appreciated at comparable rates to site-built residential properties - There is no clear negative correlation between the overall appreciation rate of site-built residential properties and the presence of manufactured housing in close proximity Manufactured Home Life, Existing Housing Stock Through 1997Iowa State University, May 1998Dr. Carol B. Meeks An update to an earlier study conducted when Dr. Meeks was with the University of Georgia, this study takes a more comprehensive look at the manufactured housing stock to determine the life expectancy of manufactured homes. Manufactured Home Life, Existing Housing Stock Through 1997 finds that the life expectancy of manufactured homes is comparable to the life expectancy of new site-built homes.Code Comparison Study - MHCSS vs. CABO One- and Two-Family Dwelling and Model Energy CodesUniversity of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign School of Architecture, January 1998Jeffrey Gordon and William B. Rose Compares the applicable requirements of standards for construction of a home built to the federal Manufactured Home Construction and Safety Standards (HUD Code) with the CABO One- and Two-Family Dwelling Code and Model Energy Code. The comparison concludes that while in some areas the HUD Code requirements are more restrictive, and in other areas the CABO code are, on balance the two codes are comparable, resulting in houses that perform similarly.Identification and Measurement of Zoning Barriers Related to Manufactured Housing: A Location and Accessibility Analysis East Carolina University, 1999Dr. Richard Stephenson and Dr. Guoqiang Shen The 1999 ECU Study examines what impact zoning has on manufactured housing placement and it’s proximity to "positive" versus "negative" public facilities. For the purposes of the study, "positive" facilities included environmental, health and emergency rescue services; cultural, recreational and education services; and auto, food, shopping and other business services. "Negative" facilities include landfill and solid waste sites and other similar uses. Findings include: - Manufactured housing is located farther from "positive" community facilities, which is especially significant in the area of life safety services - Manufactured housing is located closer to "negative" public facilities such as landfills and solid waste facilities - Zoning districts where manufactured housing is a permitted use have a higher percentage likelihood of being located in flood zones The general conclusion is that many of the negative perceptions of manufactured housing are in fact self-fulfilling prophecies perpetuated in part by the limited placement opportunities created through local government zoning actions.The Impact of Manufactured Housing on Adjacent Site BuiltResidential Properties in Two Alabama CountiesAuburn University - Montgomery, 2000Charles E Hegji and Linda MitchellThis study used property valuations from Montgomery and Lee Counties in Alabama to assess the impact of proximity to manufactured housing on site-built property value. Using a methodology similar to that use by East Carolina University in their earlier study, including a spatial analysis using GIS, the Auburn University - Montgomery study concluded that: - The appreciation rates of individual manufactured homes in both counties were comparable to those of site-built properties - Proximity to manufactured housing did not appear to be a significant determinant of property values of site-built residential housing (www.manufacturedhousing.org/)
"The appreciation in value of manufactured homes comes back to the old real estate axiom -- location, location, location. When properly sited and maintained, manufactured homes will appreciate at the same rate as other homes in surrounding neighborhoods" (http://www.mhao.org/myths.asp)
webmaster
Eugene Im afraid that you have been misinformed about home appreciation/depreciation - So here, once again, is our standard responce Dont feel like your alone. "Many Americans have been victimized by an outdated conception of manufactured homes—one which has been perpetuated in the news media... IN FACT, manufactured homes held up well, even when compared to site-built homes. That this was be the case should not really surprise anyone: since 1999, manufactured homes have been built and installed to standards tougher than any but the most recent codes for site-built structures." (http://www.builtstronger.com/myths.html)
For a point of view from the Lakeland Florida area, where there are more manufactured homes per sq mile than any place else on earth, take a look at this article from LEN BONIFIELD. He tells us "As with all real estate, location and maintenance of the home play a huge role in determining the rate and extent of appreciation. In a community setting, location equates to amenities, location in the state, proximity to rivers, lakes coastlines, etc. In most average communities, homes that are 25 to 30 years old can be found selling for $15,000 to $30,000, when they sold new for under $10,000. It's not much, but it is some, appreciation. A recent newspaper article related a manufactured home for sale for more than $250,000 in Broward County. It is common to see 30-plus-year old homes sell for more than $100,000 in the Fort Myers area." He tells us "If you go to Natalie Estates in Stuart and hundreds of other good communities in Florida, you will find 1970's parks where housing has appreciated greatly. California is another classic example of selling prices several times more than they sold for originally." Read the entire article - Factory-Built Homes Appreciate
Consumers Union also has point of view different than yours
http://www.consumersunion.org/pdf/mh/Appreciation.pdf Read it and learn that "average appreciation rates of manufactured homes packaged with owned land are statistically in line with the site built market, and there are few inherent reasons that a home built in a factory should perform differently than one built on site"
"For many years, people have assumed that the value of manufactured homes depreciates. This is not so. Studies conducted at two Universities revealed that the determining factor of appreciation in both types of homes was their location. Maintenance also plays a major role.
If a home of any kind is built or setup in a bad neighborhood or area it will probably depreciate no matter what. In a good area or neighborhood they will generally appreciate in value depending on the local housing market and economy. In the case of a manufactured home, if it is setup on a permanent foundation with a concrete pad, blocked properly and anchored properly, with good drainage so water does not sit under the home and if one buys from a reputable dealer who uses good setup people, the home will be no different than a site built home. It would appreciate in value at the same rate as a site built home in the same area.
The cost of manufactured homes is significantly lower than the cost of site-built homes. This gives them an instant appreciation between what the home actually cost the homebuyer and what its market value is. In some cases, a multi-section manufactured home has sold for more the second time than the first. Properly setup and well taken care of, you are talking about a fantastic investment potential." (http://www.rebelhome.net/myth.html)
Here are a few more opinions - lifted from the MHI web site:
Manufactured Housing Research ProjectUniversity of Michigan, 1993Dr. Kate Warner and Dr. Robert JohnsonThis study is divided into six sections dealing with various questions surrounding manufactured housing: Quality, Costs and Finance, Values, Impacts on Adjacent Property Values, Manufactured Housing and the Senior Population, and Alternative Ownership and Innovative uses. Findings included: - Manufactured housing quality has become essentially equivalent to that of conventional housing - Manufactured housing compares favorably with site-built housing as an affordable housing option - Manufactured housing, like site-built housing, can be viewed as an investment with probabilities of appreciation and equity accumulation - Manufactured housing has no impact on the appreciation rates of surrounding properties, putting to lie the myths of negative property value impacts.The Future of Manufactured HousingHarvard University Joint Center for Housing Studies, 1997Kimberley Vermeer and Josephine Louis The Harvard Joint Center report is essentially a survey of previous academic studies of manufactured housing. It draws from earlier Joint Center studies, particularly Residential Property Value and Mobile/Manufactured Homes: A Case Study of Belmont, New Hampshire," which is Thomas Nutt-Powell’s 1986 examination of property value impacts of manufactured housing, as well as the Manufactured Housing Research Project abstracted above. The Future of Manufactured Housing points out some areas that the industry needs to address (many of them dealt with in the Manufactured Housing Improvement Act, such as installation) and the conclusions that it draws are generally very favorable for the industry. The Impact of Manufactured Housing on Adjacent Site-BuiltResidential Properties in North CarolinaEast Carolina University, 1997Dr. Richard Stephenson and Dr. Guoqiang Shen.The first examination of property value impacts of manufactured housing that draws on real-world spatial relationships via GIS data, The Impact of Manufactured Housing on Adjacent Site-Built Residential Properties in North Carolina dispels the twin myths that manufactured housing automatically depreciates and drags down surrounding property values. The most telling findings were: - Manufactured homes with a fixed foundation or listed as real property appreciated at comparable rates to site-built residential properties - There is no clear negative correlation between the overall appreciation rate of site-built residential properties and the presence of manufactured housing in close proximity Manufactured Home Life, Existing Housing Stock Through 1997Iowa State University, May 1998Dr. Carol B. Meeks An update to an earlier study conducted when Dr. Meeks was with the University of Georgia, this study takes a more comprehensive look at the manufactured housing stock to determine the life expectancy of manufactured homes. Manufactured Home Life, Existing Housing Stock Through 1997 finds that the life expectancy of manufactured homes is comparable to the life expectancy of new site-built homes.Code Comparison Study - MHCSS vs. CABO One- and Two-Family Dwelling and Model Energy CodesUniversity of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign School of Architecture, January 1998Jeffrey Gordon and William B. Rose Compares the applicable requirements of standards for construction of a home built to the federal Manufactured Home Construction and Safety Standards (HUD Code) with the CABO One- and Two-Family Dwelling Code and Model Energy Code. The comparison concludes that while in some areas the HUD Code requirements are more restrictive, and in other areas the CABO code are, on balance the two codes are comparable, resulting in houses that perform similarly.Identification and Measurement of Zoning Barriers Related to Manufactured Housing: A Location and Accessibility Analysis East Carolina University, 1999Dr. Richard Stephenson and Dr. Guoqiang Shen The 1999 ECU Study examines what impact zoning has on manufactured housing placement and it’s proximity to "positive" versus "negative" public facilities. For the purposes of the study, "positive" facilities included environmental, health and emergency rescue services; cultural, recreational and education services; and auto, food, shopping and other business services. "Negative" facilities include landfill and solid waste sites and other similar uses. Findings include: - Manufactured housing is located farther from "positive" community facilities, which is especially significant in the area of life safety services - Manufactured housing is located closer to "negative" public facilities such as landfills and solid waste facilities - Zoning districts where manufactured housing is a permitted use have a higher percentage likelihood of being located in flood zones The general conclusion is that many of the negative perceptions of manufactured housing are in fact self-fulfilling prophecies perpetuated in part by the limited placement opportunities created through local government zoning actions.The Impact of Manufactured Housing on Adjacent Site BuiltResidential Properties in Two Alabama CountiesAuburn University - Montgomery, 2000Charles E Hegji and Linda MitchellThis study used property valuations from Montgomery and Lee Counties in Alabama to assess the impact of proximity to manufactured housing on site-built property value. Using a methodology similar to that use by East Carolina University in their earlier study, including a spatial analysis using GIS, the Auburn University - Montgomery study concluded that: - The appreciation rates of individual manufactured homes in both counties were comparable to those of site-built properties - Proximity to manufactured housing did not appear to be a significant determinant of property values of site-built residential housing (www.manufacturedhousing.org/)
"The appreciation in value of manufactured homes comes back to the old real estate axiom -- location, location, location. When properly sited and maintained, manufactured homes will appreciate at the same rate as other homes in surrounding neighborhoods" (http://www.mhao.org/myths.asp)
webmaster
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Penny
Re: Lifespan of Palm Harbor Home
Yes, I have read the Consumers Union report and found it very interesting and eye opening. I was really surprised at how misinformed everyone is, because everyone who we have shared our plans with has told us "Don't buy a manufactured home. It will depreciate." But I think they may be wrong, according to Consumer Reports.
We live in a new site built home currently, and I probably wouldn't give it a 50 year lifespan, so it is probably comparable, if I get the MH built with all the right materials.
I looked at a Karsten yesterday but I felt it was overpriced. After buying the land and improving it, a Karsten would come close to our current mortgage. Soon I am going to look at the Patriot of Texas homes. I hear they are top quality as well. I want to get as much of a residential type look as possible.
This website, along with the ebook, has been immensely helpful.
We live in a new site built home currently, and I probably wouldn't give it a 50 year lifespan, so it is probably comparable, if I get the MH built with all the right materials.
I looked at a Karsten yesterday but I felt it was overpriced. After buying the land and improving it, a Karsten would come close to our current mortgage. Soon I am going to look at the Patriot of Texas homes. I hear they are top quality as well. I want to get as much of a residential type look as possible.
This website, along with the ebook, has been immensely helpful.
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Eugene
Re: Lifespan of Palm Harbor Home
Tell you what Penny,
Talk with real estate people in your area. Ask them about the resale of a manufactured home.
If you buy into the industry spin, you will be making a mistake.
best of luck
Talk with real estate people in your area. Ask them about the resale of a manufactured home.
If you buy into the industry spin, you will be making a mistake.
best of luck
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Penny
Re: Lifespan of Palm Harbor Home
The Consumer Reports paper isn't industry spin. It is 40 pages of real data, even for my specific region.
We plan to pay off the mortgage within 8 or 10 years, so hopefully it won't be an issue. Basically we'd be screwed either way. If hubby lost his job, we lose this house. If we were in a MH, we'd lose that house. What difference does it make? The gamble is that in a MH we will have more resources leftover after our house payment so that hopefully if hard times did come we would have been able to create enough of a nest egg to get by.
We plan to pay off the mortgage within 8 or 10 years, so hopefully it won't be an issue. Basically we'd be screwed either way. If hubby lost his job, we lose this house. If we were in a MH, we'd lose that house. What difference does it make? The gamble is that in a MH we will have more resources leftover after our house payment so that hopefully if hard times did come we would have been able to create enough of a nest egg to get by.
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rmurray
Re: Lifespan of Palm Harbor Home
So your local real estate person is a better information resource than Harvard, U of Michigan, u of North Carolina and Consumers Union...Hurry call Riply's...He is a smart person indeed..
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Neil
Re: Lifespan of Palm Harbor Home
You can fool some of the manufactured homeowners all of the time, or all the manufactured homeowners some of the time, but you can't fool all the manufactured homeowners all of the time. As a Florida manufactured homeowner, a licensed real estate broker, and registered professional engineer I can say there is some good comments from every one but generally speaking manufactured homes depreciate in Florida parks but of course the land appreciates. Talk to people selling used manufactured homes, either brokers or homeowners
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jgn
Re: Lifespan of Palm Harbor Home
Very few homes appreciate but land does. If you went to sell your current home without the land it would depreciate a significant amount, so would a MH. If you have a good location either home will appreciate but the MH will appreciate at a slower rate and will be harder to sell. There is still a huge bias against MH and it affects the home buyers and real estate agents as well. The example of a home that cost $10K 25 years ago and now sells for $15-30K is a good example. A site built would appreciate significantly more than that in the same condition and location. If you plan on keeping the home for the long term you get far more for the money with a MH and appreciation is not an issue but if it is a short term (5-10yrs) you are much better off with a site built.
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David Oxhandler
Re: Lifespan of Palm Harbor Home
I own several homes in a MH Park in central Florida that I have been renting for almost 20 years. The homes are maintained in as close to new condition as possible and the community is in a location that is in high demand. The value of my homes have gone up, up and off the charts. I recently sold a double wide that I had purchased in 1989 for $12,000 for $36,000. Anyone that claims that homes in a park depreciate is just plain wrong.
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