The Manufactured Housing Forums

I have been frequenting this forum for the better part of the past year, after I put my manufactured home up for sale 19 months ago. I have, in that time, learned a lot about how the MH industry works, albeit from a customer's perspective, and some of what I have seen and heard is pretty disturbing. I have voiced many the concerns I have with the marketing practices with manufactured home dealers/brokers on the "Sales and Management Solutions" forum, which I believed was a appropriate place to do so. Recently, however, the moderator of that forum, Mr. Carl Davidson, took issue with the discussion of proper ethics in the MH business, effectively implying that business and ethics have nothing to do with each other, and deleting any posts which referred to such discussion. I find this to be a very sad situation, and perhaps the biggest problem facing the manufactured home industry (and business in general) today. In my opinion, if those involved can't discuss this issue and find a "solution" (as the title of the forum says) to the problem of the lack of ethical practice in business, then any further discussion in the arena is useless, and simply boils down to discussion on how to make a fast buck.

There are several things which really concern me. The first is the refusal by many in the sales end of this industry to actually listen to their customers, and to do business with the customer's best interest in mind. A home, whether stick-built of pre-manufactured, is a major, long-term and often life-changing purchase, and yet, many MH dealers and brokers treat their customers as if they're selling them used Yugo's. Whether the home costs $10,000 or $100,000 should make no difference. In my opinion, a prospective home seller/buyer should expect the same level of treatment and consideration from a mobile home broker/dealer than they would from a realtor. Instead, most of the manufactured home brokers I have run across treat these properties more like used cars than places of residence (and they treat their customers accordingly). I have found out the hard way that there is a definite prejudice against people who own manufactured homes, and unfortunately, it is warranted in some cases. However, it's no excuse for the people who deal in this business to treat their clients and prosepctive clients like ignorant "trailer trash", without regard for what's in the customer's best interest.

Another concern I have is for the lack of an information and support system for those who are buying or selling a manufactured home. Once again, allow me to use a realtor by comparison. A real estate agent will usually be honest and upfront with you about what your property is worth, and if you're a buyer, they will usually advise you as to whether your purchase would be a good investment. They will do a market analysis on your property, and since listing too high usually means that your property will not sell and they will not collect commission, they are not likely to hide the truth about the true value of your property. There usually is, in each locality, a "board of realtors", and these people agree to abide by certain codes and (here's that word again) ethics in the way they practice business. In my experience, there is no such "board" for mobile home dealers/brokers. There is no such code of conduct or code of ethics. Each broker writes their own rules, sets their own commissions (many quite outrageous), and approaces the client with no concrete credentials to back them up. Many borkers have told me that they "sell more homes than anyone else". When I ask them to produce written proof in the form of a sales award or a written, verified comparison, they suddenly back off the subject. No system is in place to insure that the dealer treats the customer fairly, and I believe that's a HUGE problem, whether Mr. Davidson and his colleagues want to face it or not!

What really gives me a chuckle is that I see dealers and brokers scratching their heads right now and wondering why people aren't buying manufactured homes. Some blame it on the recession, others still blame it on 9/11, and yet others blame low interest rates. I'm sure that these things are all factors, but I also think the people in charge are missing the big picture, and, in my opinion, the biggest part of the picture is putting the CUSTOMER back into customer service.

So I've come to the conclusion that I'm either banging my head against a brick wall, or trying to change a leopard's spots, both of which are frustrating and no longer worth my time. This will be my last post to this site, and, like Mr. Davidson chose to, you can call it "off-topic" and delete it if you want, but if that's what you choose to do, I think it's equal to treating a painful reaction, while the disease continues to consume the industry.

Thank you, and best of luck to you all!

Very well said, DD! I hope your post won't be deleted. The guilty parties out there need to read this and react accordingly.

You bring up some great points. It is a sad fact that many in the sales end of the industry are the least trained. In many retail operations it is only a numbers game, don't worry about anything else...just get the sale.
The truth is that the industry is making many changes and some inside the busienss are unwilling or unable to make the change.
As to your looking at the real estate industry remember, in all states I know of, real estate agents are state lisenced, they can be held accountable. Very few states have that kind of formal system for the sellers of manufactured homes. It would be a good idea if they did.
Most manufacturers will say in private disscussions that the "front line" sales people need both more product and industry knowelge, but if they push to train salespersons more, they get problems from the retailers, who don't have the time to get folks properly trained.
Our industry is more closely alligned with the Real Estate industry, because more of our homes are ending up on private land. The retailers who will survive will have to adjust to that fact.
Years ago, Manufactured Housing customers were at the low end of the affordability scale. The lease likely to question, complain or seek remedy. Hence many retailers did become like used car sales centers, that has changed.
As I said before, if the industry does not change with the times, there won't be an industry.
good luck,

The vast majority of those of us in the industry are caring, professional folks...We all know that there are some who are not...they hurt all of us...Unfortuantely...the bad apples will not be reading your post...They have no use for sites like these because they make their life very hard..

Some of us know the only real way to defeat the bad apples in the industry is consumer education...That is the value of these forums and others like it...The internet has helped immensely...A buyer who takes the time to bring themselves up to speed on the basics is far less likely to fall for the lies and bs that some weak sales persons resort to to sell homes...Recently I have heard some of those fast tract salesperson bad mouthing the net and the info that some customers have available to them...They were discussing how hard it is to sell a savvy customer...One with too much info causes them to quiver in their boots..

The best advice you can give prospective customers is to get up to speed..If buying a manufactured, site built or any other type of home...education and information is very important..

Constructive info from folks like you can help future buyers a lot..I hope you will continue to stop back buy and give others the benefit of your experience and give them good advice on how to porceed..

Thank you for that response and I hope DD does not stop coming by! I have to tell you from my own experience that yes indeed, it makes a huge difference when you talk with a saleperson after "arming" yourself with information. We have learned so much after buying the comparison guide and reading the various posts to this and other forums! I feel far more educated and confident when I talk with a representative. It's pretty interesting because I find a much better interaction between the dealership and us when we talk specifics. Fast-talking salespeople get nowhere with us anyway, we tend to walk out. A salesperson who appears to be interested in what we are looking for is much appreciated. It seems we have had the privilege of speaking with at least three such individuals. Now all we need do is figure out how to work with the county. I'm going in tomorrow and taking notes. L. Jane

'Ol Carl almost chased me off before I even made my first post. Which this is!
Seems like a little forum nazi to me & doing nothing but pushing "HIS" products!
Forums naturally veer off topic now & then in the course of a conversation.
Carl needs to chill out a bit & learn some internet etiquette & stop being so damn rude!
Greg Killam

Very well said!!!

I am surprised that more mh dealers aren't involved with the internet - when i do mention something i've learned by researching, i get an eye roll and "you can't believe everything" type response. not even my doctor treats research i've done that half heartedly. the number of dealers i have found on the internet in my local area is paultry. it looks even worse when compared to real estate info.

dealers do need an education and they might want to start with their own homes. time and time again, i have sat in front of a dealer and requested something i knew the factory might have a problem with, only to hear "no problem, no charge" . i end up being the one that educates them on how their homes are buildt. it's hard to have confiedence in situations like that. the answers i have gotten on the permitting process varies just as widely and they don't know the codes as far as what can be placed where (although some i'm sure were trying to upgrade me into a double-wide vs a single wide). there are bad apples, intentionaly trying to take advantage of the lower income, limited fund buyer with no down loans and selling them at premium rates for homes i'd be shocked if they did pass h.u.d. current codes. i weeded them out by saying i had cash and there was no back half of the loan to attach extra charges to. they lost interest quickly.

the rest were reputable, no complaints with the state agency, etc. and they still did not know thier homes - nor were many interested. most of these agents seemed to impress me as 'real estate agent - wannabes' and yet they still lacked in the background work, knowledge and proffessionalism of an agent. i am going to respect and value thier commission a lot more if they've done some work vs handing me an unknown package deal that i need to do the leg work on. if i do it, i am going to push for a reduction in price. however i will probably just end up elsewhere due to no confiedence in the dealer - and sadly, that dealer probably never will understand why.

i know i will vote for stronger legislation in this industry. out of the dealers i have met (i swear hundreds by now) there's only been 2 i would consider. that's pretty sad.